By Marianne Schnall
Marianne Schnall: We are at this historic moment where we have the potential to elect not only our first woman, but our first Black and South Asian woman president. What do you think that would mean for boys and girls everywhere in this country, as well as women’s leadership generally, to break that glass ceiling of electing our first woman president who is also a woman of color? And what does it personally mean to you as a Black woman?
Kimberly Peeler-Allen: I think the historic nature of this is just tremendous. I think for small children to look up and see that the president of the United States possibly looks like them, looks like a family relative, for millions of children and young people who have never seen that, or the last time they saw it, they may not even remember or have really been aware when president Obama was president. And I think there are just possibilities that exist that you too can do X, Y, and Z.
I have been thinking back to a conversation I had with someone, it was probably in the early twenty-teens where their son had said, “I thought you had to be a woman to be Secretary of State,” because in their lifetime they had only seen or only heard about Madeleine Albright and Condoleezza Rice and others. And it was like, that’s just how it goes. Just like the declaration of that. And it was just something that has just always stuck with me.
We could be at this place now where young boys and girls will be able to say, “Well, yeah, that’s just what it is.” And I think as we have for so long seen leadership in this country be white and male, the assumptions were that’s just what it had to be or what it was. And this is changing that.
For me personally, it is really a momentous time to even be here, to see a Black woman, a South Asian woman at the top of the ticket. This is something I’ve been working on before I even knew I was working on it, having founded Higher Heights in 2011. And we were very proud to support the Vice President—then she was Attorney General of California—when she ran for U.S. Senate because we hadn’t had a Black woman in the U.S. Senate in almost 20 years since the departure of Moseley-Braun. So it was trying to inch forward.
And I remember having a conversation with the then-newly-minted Senator Harris, and she said, “You all were made for a moment like this because of the historic nature of my position, but also the support to be able to galvanize Black women and our allies all across the country,” to support her and overall expanding the number of Black women in elected office. So it’s a little heady to think that I had some small hand in where we are right now, but it also drives me forward because it just reiterates what can be done if you just say, “We’re not going to stick with the status quo anymore.” It’s exciting.
Schnall: Why is representation and diversity in leadership important, not just to women, women of color, all different sorts of marginalized groups that have not been represented, but why is it beneficial for all Americans?
Peeler-Allen: It’s beneficial for all of us because the more different life experiences that are around decision making tables, the better decisions that are made that uplift more people, that touch on more lives. There’s someone there who’s saying, “I know what it is to have gone through X. I know what it is to be X. And this policy or this bill, there’s a blind spot because you’re not thinking about people who have experienced Y, and it’s not that simple just to be able to, with a stroke of a pen, say this isn’t going to happen anymore,” because of that lived experience that diverse leaders bring to the conversation.
In our 248 years, the majority of our leadership has been white and male and, frankly, affluent. So to be able to have a woman of color who comes from very humble beginnings—and she talks about the fact that her mother wasn’t able to buy a house until she was in high school—that changes the conversation of what it is to have had to work through high school, work through college, or having to be left with a caregiver around the corner rather than formal daycare or all the afterschool activities. That just changes the experience. And then also to be to lead in a moment where we’re still experiencing the double bind of being a woman and a woman of color, and the assumptions about your capabilities are still very prevalent all across the country, not just in government, but in all levels of leadership.
So I think to be able to have someone who has those types of lived experiences at the top of the table to be able to say, “These are the priorities,” as they’re setting budgets, because we know budgets are not about dollars and cents. They’re moral documents; they are about the priorities and what we want to really focus on and change. So having someone who has those different types of experiences allows for better decisions because there are more people that will be touched by that expansive life experience at the table.
Schnall: When Kamala announced her candidacy, it was Black women who so quickly organized the Win with Black Women Zoom call, which not only raised I think $1.5 million in three hours, but also sparked so many other Zoom calls and fundraising efforts. What else are you seeing in terms of Black women mobilizing in this election?
Peeler-Allen: We’re definitely seeing Black women saying, “Yes, I got on a Zoom call, but what else can I do?” The number of trips and door knocking and letter writing, phone banks, as well as fundraising efforts that are being driven by Black women is exponential. We have always seen Black women, frankly, overperform all of the demographic groups at the polls, but now they’re really taking this into action. And we know informally that Black women don’t go to the polls alone; they organize their block, their community, their neighborhood, their household to make sure that people are doing the right thing for their community and making sure that their voices are heard.
And I think that what we have seen coming out of 2016, and also coming out of 2020, is the people are really understanding the impact that their actions leading up to election day can make in an election. We’re seeing how close the 2020 election was decided for Biden and how close the 2016 election was decided for Trump, and really saying, “We can’t take anything for granted. We cannot leave any stone unturned. We must touch every voter.” We must leave it all on the playing field, not just for the incredibly qualified historic candidate we have at the top of the ticket, but also to defend and protect our democracy, because we realize that this election is not just about the individuals that are at play, but it is also a really a testament of who we are as a country. And we will see in November what the final verdict is. I’m hoping that the American people overall side with protecting our democracy, standing for the Constitution and the rule of law, and being able to move an agenda forward that lifts the majority and is built on joy and opportunity rather than fear and division.
Schnall: You just touched on some of this, but Black women have long been a very decisive, powerful, and under-recognized political force in this country. Can you share some of your thoughts and experiences with that history, as well as why it’s so important to advance Black women’s leadership in this moment and beyond?
Peeler-Allen: It’s actually part of the narrative as to why we founded Higher Heights back in 2011. Glynda Carr and I knew that, anecdotally from our interactions with Black women across the country, being involved as political operatives in New York and up and down the East Coast, we knew there was this untapped resource. We knew that the party and candidates were not unfortunately leaning into the power and the importance of Black voters and particularly Black women until the eleventh hour, because they knew that they were going to do the right thing. So we thought if we actually organized and did the work so that the investment and the outreach and the tools were provided to Black women earlier, how much more could they even do? And we started marching down that trail of trying to get people to really recognize the importance of that investment.
And early on, people were saying, “Does it really matter? There are other folks that we need to invest in.” But we said, “If you invest in Black women, it’s not just Black women that benefit: the whole nation benefits.” And really digging in on how underrepresented Black women had been. We have had some really stellar Black women in elected office. Thinking back to Barbara Jordan and Shirley Chisholm and Carol Moseley Braun and people like Lottie Shackelford, who was the first mayor of a top 100 city in Little Rock—they’re trailblazers and have been extremely vocal. So it feels like Black women have this outsized presence, but when you actually count up how many we have had, and how long they’ve served in total versus the number of Black women in the population, they’re grossly underrepresented.
So being able to articulate that to stakeholders and gatekeepers, as well as Black women themselves, to recognize that they have the power to swing an election. I think it was the 2015 election in Virginia where Terry McAuliffe won. It was a very, very close election, and a lot of the narrative coming out of that election was that single women had made the difference, but if you actually looked at the cross tabs and the number of Black women who voted, it was a direct correlation to the margin of victory for Terry McAuliffe. So that was really where we were like, okay, we’ve got to change the narrative and we’ve got to really drive home what is at stake, and also the importance of mobilizing and empowering Black women to really claim their seat because it is rightfully theirs.
So we’ve just been pushing and pushing and pushing, and now we have, as the swearing in of Congresswoman McIver out of New Jersey, 31 Black women in Congress, which is really exciting. When we started, we had 18. So there’s definitely been a sizable shift in the number of Black women in elected office. And we’re seeing unprecedented investments, still not as much as we would like, but unprecedented investments in organizing and mobilizing Black women voters to make sure that they have the tools not just to come out for themselves, but to mobilize their communities.
Schnall: Well, thank you for all of this important work that you’re doing. And speaking of that, what issues do you see sort of motivating Black women to turn out in this election? Are there any specific issues that you think will be sort of the primary drivers?
Peeler-Allen: I think much of the same narrative that is driving voters across the country are the issues that are important to Black women: the economy, our personal safety and security, as well as our bodily autonomy are the three things that are really driving Black women voters to the polls. And I think the issue of reproductive freedom is not in a vacuum, and the connection to the rollbacks on civil rights, affirmative action, as well as our reproductive freedom, we are seeing all of these things as being very interconnected, like an attack on one is an attack on all. So we have to come out and vote and push back on, frankly, some of the decisions that have been coming out of the Supreme Court to try and make sure that all Americans have the opportunity to thrive and have self-determination as it is aspired to in our founding documents. Just the ability to put food on the table and have security in your life is a huge motivating factor.
Schnall: There’s been, in recent years, a surge of women of color running for office and winning. Have you seen that surge continuing? And what do you think has been fueling that?
Peeler-Allen: I think it has continued. And I think a lot of it is the possibilities that exist; we saw a huge uptick in candidates who ran in 2018 because I think they saw, “Wait, I can do this too. No one else is standing up for my community, so I have to do it.” And we’re seeing that that continues to be a strong motivator of women of color running for office. Unfortunately in 2024, those numbers have dipped a little bit from what we saw in previous cycles, but the numbers are still strong, and we will likely continue to grow representation across the board. But I think it is really seeing that there is a pathway; people are not feeling as isolated running for office as they once were. Yes, we still have states that have never sent a Black woman or a woman of color to Congress, but they’re also connecting to other Black other women who are those similar firsts. And there are comradery and support networks that are really honing in on those firsts, so that they don’t feel so isolated and actually feel supported and to be able to be successful in setting them up to lead. So I think those are things that are continuing to fuel the pipeline of women of color who are running for office.
But there also continue to be challenges because even as we see a woman of color at the top of the ticket, there’s still a lot of racism, sexism, and misogyny that is being lobbed at the Vice President and every other woman candidate on the ballot. And in some places, those attacks are really vicious and antithetical to what it means to be in a functioning democracy, which unfortunately, I think are also some of the reasons why we have not seen a continuous uptick in 2024 as we had seen in previous years. The temperature of the body politic is becoming more and more toxic, where women and women of color specifically, are saying, “I don’t know if I want to get out there and do this.” But what we are seeing is more times than not, they’re saying, “Well, this may be really ugly, but I have no other choice because the stakes are too high for me to stay home.”
Schnall: What are the specific biases and barriers for women candidates, particularly women of color, and what can we do to address them?
Peeler-Allen: I think there’s a constant need for women of color to credentialize themselves. We continuously have to prove that we belong in the room, let alone at the head of the table. So there is just the continuous labor of having to say, “Yes, I’m qualified. Yes, these are my credentials, and not only am I the most qualified person in this race, I also happen to be a woman.” So we need to kind of get past all of the questions of, “Oh, I don’t know if a woman could lead,” and be able to move beyond that. And I think that is probably one of the biggest challenges, the sexist tropes that follow women around, particularly women in their childbearing years—what’s going to happen to your children? Why don’t you have children? Why don’t you have a partner? What does your partner say about this?—that, frankly, men do not have to face at all. And it is just a continuous drumbeat.
I think folks are definitely doing a better, more assertive job of calling out the stereotypes and the double standards, which is helping beat back some of the narrative. But I was just on social media earlier and saw some people talking about a candidate and questioning, “Well, what does her husband say?” Or “She must not have talked to her husband before she decided she was going to do this.” Or “I don’t know if she’s qualified because what happens if she decides she wants to have a baby and then she’s just gonna be gone.” What does that have to do with anything? That’s not how this works. So I think there’s still a lot that has to be changed in terms of our gender norms.
And then fundraising is still always a challenge. The Center for American Women in Politics has been doing a lot of research over the last year or so around fundraising trends in terms of what are women of color overall raising, what are women donors doing, the average size contribution between a woman candidate and a man candidate. As a longtime fundraiser, I remember seeing even women donors writing larger checks to male candidates than they were to female candidates. And so I think that continues to be something to be worked on, and I think it’s one of those things where, once you highlight it, people are like, “Oh, wait, I did that?” and really checking their biases as they move forward.
And I think the last piece of it continues to be the gatekeepers that is also rooted in racism, sexism, and misogyny. And, frankly, maintaining patriarchy of, “Who are we choosing for this particular seat?” And particularly for a lot of down ballot local races, there are party bosses or organized labor folks who get to more or less anoint the candidates for a particular seat, which puts them on the leadership ladder. So if a woman does not get tapped for that initial step up on the rung, it makes it that much harder for her to be able to climb. So I think there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done there in terms of opening the aperture. It’s not just the usual suspects of this person’s son or this person’s brother, and so-and-so has been my intern, and they also are a guy, but being able to really be intentional about looking for all of the candidates, so that we’re not just continuing to promote the same demographic into leadership.
Schnall: Having identified all of these potential obstacles, what can we all do to support and uplift Black women’s leadership in politics and beyond?
Peeler-Allen: I think it is seeking out Black women candidates and women of color candidates and doing the research of saying, “Who else is out there? What are they talking about? What are the obstacles they are facing?” Because chances are, they are all definitely facing racism, sexism, and misogyny. And then particularly looking at local races: who else could be a candidate? And asking a woman to run and supporting her. It’s not just asking, it’s what comes with that ask: are you going to make a contribution? Are you going to volunteer on the campaign? Are you going to talk to your friends and family about that candidate? Are you going to talk to your influential networks to help break down some of those barriers that the gatekeepers and power brokers put in front of women running?
So I think those are a lot of the pieces. Write a check, whether it’s a small contribution or a large contribution. Everyone can do something that will make a difference. But I think it is just being very intentional about it, making sure that women of color, Black women in my realm specifically, have the resources and the support that they need and are having someone talk about them. Because one of the reasons that we started Higher Heights was we said that there are so many Black women in elected office, and nobody knows who they are, and nobody knows the amazing work they’re doing. So we have to tell those stories. I forget who said it, but democracy is a verb. It is not a noun, it’s a verb. It requires action. It requires research. It requires due diligence on the behalf of the voters to make sure that we have the democracy and the country that we want. And we can’t just take what is given to us as the status quo. Really seek out diverse leadership, seek out diverse opinions to make sure that we actually have an active and thriving democracy.
So I would say the biggest piece is figuring out that we all have some sort of privilege in this world. The fact that we woke up every day, that gives us something that we can give to others. So figure out how you’re going to spend your privilege to uplift a woman of color candidate so that our democracy can actually be reflective of the beauty and the diversity of this country.
Schnall: What is at stake in this election? For all people, but also for the Black community and the Black female community?
Peeler-Allen: I think what we have seen by the Republicans’ Project 2025 a very clear outline of the rollbacks of so many of the social constructs that have enabled not just Black people, but so many Americans to thrive, whether it is funding public education or bodily autonomy, economic opportunity, social constructs. We are seeing so much of the work of, frankly, generations of leaders in this country very clearly outlined how they will unravel it. And I think getting really brass tacks about it. We’re talking about bodily autonomy, a woman’s ability to control when, who, how to have a family and expand their family. The opportunity to control our elections so that it is something that is welcoming to all eligible voters in this country instead of an arduous task that works to suppress the vote and suppress voices. The criminal justice system, the Department of Energy. So making sure that we have clean water through the EPA, and we’ve seen how communities of color have really suffered with lead pipes in Flint and forever chemicals in water and air quality and environmental racism.
So there’s just so much that is at stake, and being able to vote for the Harris Walz ticket is a vote to protect all of these things that have been so long fought in our society. So it is not just that the stakes are high for people of color, but the stakes are high for all of us. And I think it’s well documented that those who are most insecure will be the ones that will suffer the most. So our most vulnerable are in danger of losing it all.
Schnall: You’ve been involved with so many different organizations, including NARAL, now Reproductive Freedom for All. What would you want people to know about the reproductive freedom issue specifically? What do people need to understand?
Peeler-Allen: I think the biggest takeaway we could use is, unfortunately, the heartbreaking stories that ProPublica released last week of Candi Miller, and I’m forgetting the name of the other woman, who died in Georgia because of the abortion ban. Candi Miller had a series of preexisting health conditions. She was already a mother of a small child, and she knew that her body would not physically withstand another pregnancy, that it would likely take her life. But she also knew that she didn’t have the resources to travel out of state. It was after Georgia’s six-week abortion ban had gone into effect. She was able to track down some medication to manage her abortion at home. Because of all of her preexisting conditions and her self-managed pain, she unfortunately passed away with her small child sitting next to her. And that is just gut wrenching.
And then the other story was a woman who found herself pregnant, I think after the ban went into effect. I think she may have been at seven weeks. And she made plans to go out of state for an abortion. She had some complications and was not “sick enough” to be able to get care back in Georgia when she got back home, and basically got sepsis in the parking lot of a hospital, and by the time they took her into the hospital for surgery, she expired on the table. So it’s not just, “Oh, I’m using abortion as birth control.” The ripple effect of the just arcane policy is costing lives that don’t have to be lost. And for these women to know that they are, for whatever reason, not in a position to have another child, for them to lose their lives is just absolutely appalling.
So I think that it is not just saying, “We’re being pro-life.” This is not pro-life. This is not pro-life at all. And then to mirror these restrictions with the rollbacks on public education and childcare and equal pay and all of these things, that is not pro-life by any stretch. To quote Stacey Abrams, forced pregnancies, but then not providing support and resources for families once these children are here is just absolutely appalling.
Schnall: It is just absolutely gut wrenching. And also connected to just the status of women in this country. I was thinking about the other organization that you are also involved with, the ERA Coalition. The Equal Rights Amendment to the New York State Constitution is on the ballot this election. What should people know about the status and importance of the ERA? And if the referendum does pass New York, what would that indicate for the future of passing the ERA in this country?
Peeler-Allen: So the Equal Rights Amendment in New York is actually an expanded ERA. New York ratified the Equal Rights Amendment back in the seventies, soon after it went to the States. And what leaders in New York have seen is that the Equal Rights Amendment is the floor and not the ceiling for protecting the rights of all people. So this expanded ERA that will be on the ballot in November in New York codifies the right to abortion, it protects from discrimination based on sex and sexual identity. So that is a new stake to put down to protect our trans brothers and sisters and non-binary folks. And I think it is a huge step forward for what equality truly means in this country. And New York is a leader in this space. So I think there is an opportunity to really shore up a lot of things that the original ERA started but being able to expand that so that it is even more inclusive is better for everybody.
Schnall: Aside from voting, what is your call to action between now and election day?
Peeler-Allen: My call to action is to talk to everyone in your network and make sure that they know what is at stake and that they have a plan to vote. Not just that they’re registered, but they know where their poll site is. They have a plan of, are they voting early if they can? Are they voting by paper ballot and mailing it in? Do they have to physically go somewhere if they’re voting on election day? What time are they going? And reconfirming that their registration is up to date. Because that is I think the basics and something that we generally don’t think about.
I tell the story all the time, I think it was probably two election cycles ago, my poll site moved, and I didn’t realize it because I just took it for granted because I’m an active voter and I always go vote. So I went to the same place where I’ve been voting for the previous three or four election cycles, and they said, “Oh, no, you’re not registered here.” And I had to go online and double-check my registration, and it was on the other side of my neighborhood. I live in New York, so I had to walk there. Luckily I had the time to do that, but I could have saved myself if I had not been so arrogant as to say, “Oh, I’m fine.” Everybody needs to double-check and make sure that you’re registered, where your poll site is, you make sure your friends and family are registered and they know where their poll site is. So that’s the number one call to action.
And then I would say the second part of that is, as you’re talking to your friends and family about going out to vote, making sure that they are making decisions that will withstand time. The economic struggles that people are experiencing are real and they are immediate, like what is in my refrigerator right now? And will I be able to put more food in there? We’re talking very, very basic concerns and thinking about not just what you think you understand about the economic plans, but thinking more broadly. What about your children? What about your neighbor’s children? What type of future do you want to leave them? Do you want to leave this next generation with the assumption that you can be a convicted felon and you can still move forward and you can still be successful and that’s not a hindrance, so following the rule of law doesn’t really matter?
It distresses me to no end that my 17-year-old daughter has fewer bodily rights than her grandmother did, who was very much around when Roe became law. What kind of environment do you want to leave for the future? And, yes, there are immediate needs, but this is also an election that will set us on a course, I think similar to the coming out of the Depression and the election of FDR and the huge impact that his presidency had on the country for generations. We’re watching the possibilities of the social safety net and other things that he put in place be dismantled and destroyed. So thinking beyond the immediate—that is something that I implore people to think about when they are going to the polls this year, because it’s not about us: it’s about our children and our children’s children.
An excerpt of this interview appeared at Ms. Magazine.
To hear more remarks from Kimberly Peeler-Allen and other thought leaders, listen to the special election series of Marianne Schnall’s podcast ShiftMakers.
Visit What Will It Take’s 2024 Election page for more conversations, information on the biases and barriers women candidates face and how to counter them, and links to voting resources and organizations working to advance women’s political leadership in this election and beyond.
Kimberly Peeler-Allen has been working at the intersection of race, gender and politics for over 20 years. She is currently a Visiting Practitioner at the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University where she serves as an advisor on CAWP’s ongoing research and election analysis, and guest lectures in various graduate and undergraduate courses. Over the course of her career Kimberly has advised elected officials, candidates and organizations on fundraising, political strategy and coalition building to ensure that there are more diverse voices around decision making tables whether they are in elected bodies or civil society. In 2011, she co-founded Higher Heights, the nation’s leading organization dedicated to building Black women’s collective political power from the voting booth to elected office. Higher Heights has helped drive the national narrative about the power of Black women voters and has inspired countless Black women to step into their power whether as voters, activists or elected leaders. Kimberly serves as Board Chair of the ERA Coalition, Co-Chair of Higher Heights for America PAC and is a board member of ActBlue, the Fund for Women’s Equity and NARAL Pro-Choice America.
Marianne Schnall is a widely-published interviewer and journalist and author of What Will It Take to Make a Woman President?, Leading the Way, and Dare to Be You for girls. She is also the founder of Feminist.com and What Will It Take Movements and the host of the podcast ShiftMakers.
