BY MARIANNE SCHNALL
This is the full transcript of an interview of which portions originally appeared at ForbesWomen.
For prominent businesswoman and philanthropist Melinda French Gates, many of her life’s most pivotal moments have played out in the public eye: her divorce from husband Bill Gates, her departure from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation after 25 years and the $1 billion pledge she made toward gender equality as she began her own philanthropic chapter.
In her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, released in April, 2025, she offers a candid look into these turning points, as well as other more personal moments of her life, sharing previously untold stories that she hopes will provide guidance for others on how to make the most of life’s transitions.
“I turned 60 last year, and I just realized that I’ve gotten a lot of wisdom over those years, and that the wisdom really has come through these transitions,” French Gates told me. In the book, she provides a rare window into her life—reflecting on her upbringing, her career at Microsoft, being a parent, ending her marriage, coping with the death of a friend, her decision to leave the Gates Foundation—all while offering lessons on letting go of perfectionism, slowing down and listening to your inner voice, navigating times of crisis, embracing change and more.
As she explains in the book, “When transitions come—and they will come—we need to be ready to spend a bit of time in the clearings in our lives they create. After all, transitions are disruptive and disorienting. They lay waste to all our careful planning and force us to question our assumptions, our ambitions, even our very identities. But that, I’ve come to understand, is part of their magic.”
French Gates has long been a global advocate for women and girls. In 2015, she founded Pivotal Ventures, an organization that “works to advance social progress and expand women’s power and influence in the U.S. and around the world.” In 2019, she pledged $1 billion toward gender equality in the U.S., and in 2024, she committed an additional $1 billion to advance women in the U.S. and globally.
In our conversation, she talks about her philanthropy, why it’s crucial to advance women and girls and the difference women make as leaders. She also shares what inspired her to write The Next Day, what she hopes readers will take away from her story, the importance of self-care, how everyone can make a difference, her message for others, and more.
Marianne Schnall: Why did you decide to write this book right now at this point in your life?
Melinda French Gates: Well, I turned 60 last year, and there’s something about turning 60—you can’t kid yourself that you’re young anymore [laughs]. And yet I feel young. I just realized that I’ve gotten a lot of wisdom over those years, and that the wisdom really has come through these transitions. Some you expect, some you don’t expect, some easier, some more difficult. I felt like there were things I wanted to share that I had learned, pieces of advice I’d gotten along the way from friends or authors I’d go to the bookshelf and pull from; I thought there was something to share there.
Melinda French Gates giving Stanford Commencement speech in 2024 | Credit: PETER SHIN FOR PIVOTAL VENTURES
I really got the impetus for this because I was asked to do the Stanford graduation speech in June of last year, and in talking with the class presidents months before the speech, I was asking, what do you want me to speak about? And one of the young men said, “I feel like so many people here at Stanford who are about to graduate are sort of locked into thinking that their life is on one path and they have to stick to that path. If you could give us some advice about not getting locked in and leaving room for change.” So I did that speech, and then I thought, “I think I want to do a book about this.”
Schnall: What are you most hoping that readers will take away from your story? What themes or messages are you most hoping to convey, and why is it called The Next Day?
The Next Day by Melinda French Gates MACMILLAN PUBLISHERS
French Gates: It’s called The Next Day because it is about transitions in life. And what I want people to understand is, we all go through them. They can be scary, some of them can be exciting. I think if you do what I call “pausing in the clearing”—say you’re leaving a work environment, you’re going to transition to a new job or decide on a new job. Don’t just leave and then jump to the next thing. Take some time on the next day, the day after what you thought was the transition, to really think and feel and learn, because there’s so much growth that can come in a transition.
So I talk in the book about leaving room to change your plans. Think a little bit more about leaving space to meet new people and to listen. There are all kinds of people and things that will come into your life, and if you can be flexible and adaptable, change doesn’t have to be scary.
Schnall: That’s such an important lesson because change is inevitable. I think a lot of people are going through a lot of changes and transitions right now, and our first instinct is to be scared or overwhelmed. What are the gifts of going through a transition, and what can people take away from your own story and experiences?
French Gates: For me, some of the gifts were I really learned how important my friends were, and I learned how to be very, very vulnerable. Because when you’re going through hard transitions, you need to be vulnerable with people. I learned that you can have a lot of growth during that time. And, in fact, when something’s uncomfortable, it means you’re actually growing, so embrace that. Try not to be afraid of it. So I’ll literally coach myself in my head, “Okay, this is hard, but I must be growing here. It’s going to be okay.” And then on the other side, you actually become far more resilient.
So in the book I talk about concepts like distilling your inner voice, slowing down and listening to that because we all have wisdom inside of us. I talk about reaching out to friends, reaching to a shelf for an author who’s touched you before. There are lots of lessons out there for us to learn, and sometimes we just need to slow down and listen.
Schnall: You include many different lessons in the book, but you also talk specifically about the gifts and challenges that you learned through mothering and parenthood. I think many women can relate to your experiences, especially the notion that it’s okay to be good enough rather than being perfect. Women are always trying to do so much, and we put so much pressure on ourselves. Can you talk about that, about this theme of perfectionism?
French Gates: What is a perfect parent? There is no such thing. The way you parent might be different than the way I parent. It might be different than the way my mother parented or my oldest daughter who now has two girls. There is no such thing as a perfect parent. So the trick is to really embrace your imperfections, embrace what is hard for you, where you lose your patience, where you wish you had done something different. And once you embrace those things about yourself, you let the temperature down in the room for yourself and your children. I wish I had learned the concept earlier than I did; my children were in middle school by the time I learned it.
When I realized I was a good enough parent, I also started to say, “Where do these messages come from?” They come from society, they come from other women, other men. I mistakenly thought that social media was going to take perfect parenting down; it’s done exactly the opposite. So we have to remember that when people put those things up on social media, they’re showing you the sort of perfect moments of the day. They don’t show you when the kid was crying before they loaded them in the van, right? So I really try to say in this book: embrace your imperfection. Have a group of friends you can talk with, and say, “Oh, I made a huge mistake last week. I lost my temper with my child, or “If I planned ahead, maybe this wouldn’t have gone that way.”
But then also think about the concepts of healthy relationships, which have rupture and repair. So, yes, maybe you lost your temper with your child, but you can go back and apologize and you’re teaching them, “I see these things in myself, I made a mistake, I’m taking responsibility, and we can repair.” And kids need to learn rupture and repair in any healthy relationship, whether it’s a friendship, whether it’s an intimate relationship, whether it’s a work relationship. And they need to learn about unhealthy relationships, too—some people you come across and it’s hard to repair, you can only repair so much, and you actually need to release them because they are toxic.
Schnall: And even aside from parenting, we all need to let go of the notion of perfectionism in general, particularly for women. You have been a longtime vocal advocate for women and across so many issues. For over 25 years, you’ve been working through your philanthropic efforts to create a healthier, more prosperous, more equal future. You made the decision in 2024 to leave the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and announced that in the next chapter of your philanthropy you would be committing $1 billion through 2026 to advance women’s power globally and focus on women and girls. Can you share more about that and what you’ve learned about what is actually needed to advance gender equality?
French Gates: What I learned through 25 years of philanthropy at the Gates Foundation and seeing it literally all over the world, I was lucky to travel a lot for the foundation, is that when women have their full power—their voice, their decision making capabilities, their own resources—they are better off, their families are better off and society is healthier. And I have seen it time and time and time again, both at a tiny local village level, all the way up to parliaments in countries and prime ministers and presidents. So I am determined that we need to get women further in society. And that billion dollar commitment I made, a big part of it is for the United States. There’s lots of work to do globally, but in the United States we need to advance women further in society than we have, and I thought there were things we could do about that.
Schnall: And at this moment, with all the current threats to gender equality and intersecting issues that are in danger of stagnating, or perhaps even regressing, how can we continue to make progress collectively and individually? What is your call to action? How can we continue to move the needle forward?
French Gates: I think we all have something to contribute, whether people have a lot of resources, a little bit of resources, a little bit of time. For the people who really believe that in society we are better off when men and women are equal, you can use your voice to call your legislator and say, “This is a piece of legislation I believe in” or “I disagree with how you’re voting on this issue.” You can use your voice in that way. You can contribute to a small philanthropy in your own community. You can give money to a larger philanthropy working on women’s rights or working on an issue you believe in. You can teach your children that boys and girls are equal in your household and how to live that out. So I think we can live these out in society, and then we can use our voice and our money to try and move society forward in the way that we think is right.
Schnall: I think a lot of people are feeling like there’s nothing they can do to make a difference with all the problems we’re facing right now. I remember when I interviewed you many years ago, you talked about your sense of service and the rewards of giving and getting involved. What would be your message of encouragement for anyone who’s feeling like nothing they can do will make a difference or they don’t know where to start?
Melinda French Gates at El Centro de la Raza in 2022 | Credit: JOVELLE TOMAYO FOR PIVOTAL VENTURES
French Gates: I always talk about ripples in a stream. You throw a little pebble in and you see all those concentric rings that go out. You often don’t know the effect you have on another person. If you ask almost any adult, “Who had the most impact on you in your life besides your parents?,” you’re often going to hear a teacher, a coach, maybe somebody at a volunteer organization, somebody who gave you a message and lifted you up. We all impact one another. So whether you go volunteer in a classroom, whether you go serve at a local food bank, whether you coach a child, whether you give an encouraging message—those things all matter. The only thing that changes society are individuals, and then collectively individuals coming together. So I always tell people, and I absolutely believe this, with everything that you do, you can impact others.
I learned in high school, I went to an all girls Catholic school, and the nuns sent us out in the community to serve. And I know I helped that teacher in the front of the classroom who was trying to deal with 30 children learning math, some of whom didn’t speak English. When I tutored two or three of them in the back, I was helping that teacher so she could teach the other 27. And I was just a high schooler. So we can all make impact.
Schnall: That’s such an important message for people to hear right now. There are a lot of things to be concerned about that are happening in politics in our country and in the world and many people are feeling overwhelmed. In your book you talk a lot about the practices that have helped you navigate hard times. What have you learned about being proactive in your self-care and also about reaching out for help and support?
French Gates: I used to think when my children were young, “Oh my gosh, I don’t deserve self-care.” No, no, no. I learned I was a better mother when I took time for self-care. So I would want to tell everyone to take time in quiet; put your phone down and find 10 minutes a day. You can find 10 minutes a day, maybe in the morning before the kids get up, before carpool starts. Before the noise of the world comes in, that self-care is vital. You can find it there, or I’ve found it at times being out jogging. For me, I actually like to jog outdoors, even if it’s in the rain, because being in nature we know helps people. And sometimes I would get through that grist of what was going on that felt hard in my life, and then you get through to the creative side or a solution to something. So I think self-care is vital.
Schnall: I do 11 minutes of meditation, and I remember Oprah told me she did 12. Goldie Hawn told me even three minutes throughout the day can make a difference, and Arianna Huffington said it’s about “microsteps,” one minute here and there, just finding any time to prioritize that.
French Gates: One of my friends says, “Do what you can, not what you can’t.” So if you can find four minutes, if you can find 11 minutes, do what you can on that day.
I talk in the book about cultivating friends around you, friends who are truth tellers, who you can go and be completely vulnerable with: “I made a mistake at work,” “I said this and wished I hadn’t,” “I lost my temper with my child” or “I said something I regret to my spouse.” Being honest, and them being honest with you, lets you self-reflect.
I also tell a story in the book about when I did enter therapy—we were dealing with a toxic employee at the time, it was very difficult—and I went in mistakenly thinking, “Oh, five or six sessions, we’ll clear this up and I’ll be done.” Well, no, that was a symptom of a larger problem going on in my life; it was self-exploration and discovery. You discover who you are and it helps you reflect on, “Who do I want to continue to be in the world and in my home?” I believe in living a complete and as open as you can life. At least for me, it’s worked to have the same values in the way I raised my children and in the workplace, and living those out. I would say my friends, time in quiet and time in therapy have all helped me be able to get where I want to be at age 60.
Schnall: In the book you talk a lot about how your dad actively believed in the strengths that women and diversity bring to any team and really encouraged you to go into STEM, which is something that women were then, and still are, often discouraged from pursuing. Why is it important to have more women in all fields, whether it’s politics or business or STEM? What do women and diversity bring?
French Gates: We are a society made up of lots of different types of people, so when our government policies and our workplaces reflect who we are as individuals and families, then we are creating the society that we want. So I believe that it is very, very important to have all places reflect who we are as a nation. Our government is by the people and for the people, as President Lincoln said and as some of our founding documents say. I believe it’s fundamental.
It’s not better or worse, but a woman just has a different lens on society. She is often the one who’s in the role as primary caregiver, so she’s often balancing work and child rearing. Not that her spouse or her partner is not, but they may not be balancing it at the same ratio. We are seeing families in our country struggle. Our caregiving system is broken. We’re the only industrialized country in the world that doesn’t have paid family and medical leave. And the difference it has made over 30 years in places like Sweden is profound. It changes norms about what a father does and what a brother does. Fathers say, “We want to be home with our children. I don’t want to miss out on that time.” And then they participate longer in the rearing of the child. So I believe that when you have women and everybody represented in our workplaces and in society, society will be better.
One of the reasons I’m so outspoken and I try to use every tool in my toolbox—investments, philanthropic dollars, my voice and advocacy—for women in science and technology is, it is powering our society. Take just the tech sector, think about the backbone of our phones and our computers where we get information. We bias that information if it’s only created by one part of society, for instance, young white men. And I know it would be harder to get that bias out of the system if not everybody’s represented at the table. So we need to have far more women and people of color in both technology and artificial intelligence because it is changing our world as we speak.
Schnall: So true. I feel like women’s issues are so often talked about as they just benefit women, but they benefit all of us in so many ways.
French Gates: Can I add something to that? Men and boys have to be part of this conversation. The way we raise our boys, making sure they have roles in society where they feel good about their role and they’re supporting a family and a wife or a partner. And I will say, the way I have watched various prime ministers and presidents govern, if they’re a woman, it is just different. I worked with Chancellor Merkel when she was in Germany. I worked with Jacinda Ardern when she was running New Zealand. They talk often about everybody around them. During Covid, I talked to both of them, and I talked to a lot of male leaders, good male leaders. But those women were talking about not just their own country, but how do they help those around them? So Jacinda Ardern was thinking about the nations surrounding New Zealand; she said, “If they’re hurting, they’re still going to be coming into our country, so we’ve got to protect everybody, not just our own self interests.” And it makes a profound difference if young girls can see a female leader at the top of the country.
Schnall: Absolutely. I keep hearing that moments where you have this kind of pushback is often what brings us our biggest push forward. How are you feeling about where we are now, and do you feel that there’s a way to use the moment we’re in to make some kind of leap forward? What’s on your mind in this moment?
French Gates: I don’t think it’s a surprise to anybody that I was disappointed in the election. But the work continues. And I am definitely going back and reading history and remembering times when things were difficult. But you’re absolutely right: sometimes with difficult and dark times comes immense change on the other side. And you may not see it right away. Because, again, one of the things I talk about in my book about transitions is you need to pause in the clearing. You’ve got to pause in between the transitions to figure out what’s next. So maybe this is a time where we pause and we rethink, “How are we going to get where we want to go in society?” And yes, while some things are being rolled back or attacked, we’re very early in this particular administration, so let’s see. But I also think this is when people band together who have values to say, “No, no, no—this is where we’re going to go.” So I’m watching and waiting. But my work continues, and it’s only made me more resolute in what I want to do.
Schnall: That just gave me chills because I hadn’t really deeply taken in the fact that this is a transition, too. Your book is a lot about personal transition, but there’s also a collective resonance.
French Gates: We are going through a large transition right now as a country, an enormous transition. So pausing before we say something, before we act, is actually really, really important right now.
Schnall: What would you want to leave people with? What is your biggest message that you’re hoping to send out to people and women right now?
French Gates: Embrace change. Don’t be afraid of it. Change comes and it’s sometimes very hard and sometimes it’s easier and it’s fun. But go into it with courage. Just know you’ve got a lot of tools inside of you. And surround yourself with good people, surround yourself with lessons of longtime wisdom that are out there. And guess what? You’re going to grow and become more resilient on the other side. And probably you’re going to influence other people to also do the same.
This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
To learn more about Melinda French Gates’ book and work, visit her website.
Marianne Schnall is a widely-published interviewer and journalist and author of What Will It Take to Make a Woman President?, Leading the Way, and Dare to Be You: Inspirational Advice for Girls. She is also the founder of Feminist.com and What Will It Take Movementsand the host of the podcast ShiftMakers. You can find out more about her work and writings at www.marianneschnall.com.
